So who are thes cheap bastards, anyway? I think I'll not be the only one who will avoid them / their venue(s) from now on!

*peace*

Hula

What is the name of this venue? Not naming names puts them all under suspicion, and that's not fair to the many venue operators who do pay musicians.

We hire live performers and pay them the fee that they quote. They also keep all their tips...and the Yak crowd tips well. People want to return, so it must be enough to make it worth their while.

And we know we won't get rich off their backs...heck our only venue tip jar is the landlord's, which is how it should be. We'll make our SL millions off our own efforts, not off the efforts of others.

Robot's on blogging strike. Can't update.

Leave message after the tone.

BOING.

Did the math... just realized that the amount they offered was less than minimum wage.

It wasn't even the sub-minimum wage rate for professions that earn tips.

Ugh.

Wow..

I'm not a performer, but I entertain. I feel blessed to rely on tips, and have been lucky enough to let that pay for my stream, and Jane's shoe addiction.

We hire talent too, and it offends me that anyone would assume a performer would be sitting on a street corner, with an open guitar case.

These people play, for the love of the art, as well as the profit. Treat them that way.. Please!

Ah Crap? you act like this is something new? half the venues in SL would close if they had to pay their acts...due to the way they are set up...ie (no mall and no other income, its not an economical way to run a club sure but some people are just not good at that ...very few are..) There are heaps of "Tips Only" gigs around and lots of people play them, me included, I can't afford too many of them but I do them rarely, for the big groups and new audience,..I'd rather play for a large New crowd and get new fans, than play for a paying gig with a low crowd, I have a large group but I can't guarantee that they will all come.... Its a balancing act...If the venue has good support in general, and they are nice and the club is nicely done-out and tasteful, and there's a chance I can get to play for people that have never heard my music I will play for 3K which is nothing...I only play for tips at one venue, and that venue for many different reasons is special to me, and I know the way they have it set up, that they are not making any money....I try to offset that gig with paying ones...( the tips are woeful for both me and the club..Im lucky to get 2500L ) and as you know I don't do many Gigs anymore, cause there aren't many that pay...If I wanted to play for tips only or 3K every gig I'd be working twice a day like a lot of people do, (P.S I don't want that) I can't afford the overheads cause I pay my accompanist $50-70 an hour U.S

If people want to work for tips or for 3K they do so for a reason, either they are trying to build an audience and gain experience, or they are friends with the venue owner and are doing them a favor, the venue owner may have a regular supportive crowd that the act wants to tap into, or.... no one else will have them and pay them more cause no one likes em...

In a perfect world it would work this way...the club would pay each act what you are paying Crap, or more.., and make money out of attracting a crowd to their sim, without lagg contributing. Take a look at Sweethearts.. huge mall, simple club, almost no overheads except for staff wages, they play piped music all day, but...huge lagg.........

Its the same old same old, I agree that artists in here that have paid they're dues and have a great fan base deserve to be paid more than an escort...they sure do! but unless the audience pays a reasonable amount to see them and ALLl of them pay, or the venue has some income from the crowd it aint going to happen..And ....lets face it our artists here on SL are a blip on the map as far as demand goes...If a RL star came into second life for real...not just streaming a gig from RL, but actually came in and did a gig and interacted with the crowd, would people here pay to see em? you betcha!!!! cause it not something you see every day...and thats what is going to happen eventually, when the venues can hold a big audience. If artists are sooo easy to see and hear on SL for nothing..they are also then not valued...the audience treat the artists like buskers cause thats what we are doing, essentially Busking...Its the old story about put a monetary value on something and people will value it more, I've allways thought that the audience should be the ones responsible for paying the venues and the artists allways....its the only way its ever going to work...freebies are going to kill this economy and if the audience wont pay less than a cup of coffee to see an artist its because they don't value that artist at all...they have too easy access to them. The only way I can see that it will change is to offer the audience something they want to pay for and increase the audience here in SL, still only 20% or less of SL users even know about live music on SL, and we go round and round talking about it, and still nothing progresses...It needs RL publicity, and Keiko is going to be a big part of getting that happening when she appears on MTV...people need to know about the music BEFORE they come into SL ....like they do about everything else that they read about in the paper and see on the telly about SL that makes them interested in trying it, there's only so much we can do in SL to publicize, it when newbies don't read blogs or SL magazines...or even watch TV shows filmed in SL...The bigger the audience the more demand you create..Im sure Im just preaching to the converted here..:) If there are sooo many people wanting to see live music that they can't get in to a venue, guess what...you can charge em...and if the only way you are going to see Frogg or Cylindrian or Grace or me is to pay...and everyone wants to see them...they will pay...and then the venue gets a percentage and you work out your deal with the venue...like happens in RL..

Check it out at 7 or 8 oclock...there maybe over 20 gigs..happening, with the same 200 SL's moving from one to the other, more musicians comming in every day trying to play and the audience is not growing, by comparison. I say.. forget focusing on the SL publicity, do it sure...but the Focus has to be Real Life publicity and getting the people where they are reading and watching in RL before they come in! (easier said than done)...and then get the demand up so the audience will pay to get in...Music is NOT free!!!! in SL it never was! someone allways has to pay something...even if its just a Stream rental, or Tier, someone allways pays why is it not the consumer .....?
Rant done ....love you when your angry Crap :)

I hire the best and pay the best rate. I know what it is costing me to support live music in Second Live and it is within my means. Further, I make my venues available to musicians and dj's so they can use them as their own, send notices and set streams. So far it is only the musicians who have complained.... out of friendship for me... that I am too generous. But to put a show together for a dj can take as long as five hours. A live musician who is doin a ninety minute show.. well that is HARD WORK. Unless you are simulcasting from a live club like Midnight Auer it just dont make sense, exactly as you say Crap, to be paying gifted musicians less than minimum wage?? This hurts me. Any venue owner that can't see the difference between supporting the live musician and exploiting them... well this is pathetic!@

Well I generally don't comment, but in this case I feel compelled to. I am a hard working musician. Any of you can attest to that. I have been doing this a long time in RL and have been as mad as Crap for a long time. But there is this general apathy towards paying musicians, performers, and entertainers what they are worth and adjusted for the rate of inflation too. I stand on my reputation and honesty and here it is.
I was recently treated this way twice. First by Italian Mood and the idiot that runs that place. I was told the same spiel about membership and great tippers and all that crap. I wouldn't do it but this idiot was persistent and full of great promises. So I finally agreed to work for tips which I never do. I walked away with less than 1000L. Another venue hired me never asking me how much based on "they had to have me". So I did the gig and at the end of the set she asked how much and I quoted her my price which many of you are familiar with since it is my standard price and she said and i quote "You have to be fucking kidding me". People I was asking for around 20 dollars US. WTF!

I'm a musician in rl..and have been for 28 years.
This is my main source of income ..and in rl I've had to deal with club owners and record companies
that want to take advantage of my art for most of my career.And it is insulting to be offered a job for less than minimum wage.My art is not worthless..it takes a lot of work to conceive,plan,compose and promote it.That is what is being paid for ..not the show.That is the end result of all of my years of training and all of my years of experience.And at the end of the day,I should be compensated for those years of my life.And for anyone ,in rl or sl to look at music as something to be given freely,without compensation,does not respect what a true artist has to go through to get their creations out into the world.All of the years of being treated one step above a criminal or being called lazy because I chose to take charge of my life and be my own boss, instead of working for a company to make them richer.I understand that in second life the club owners are just people sitting at a computer creating their vision in their heart of hearts.But they need to understand that SO AM I.And my music and my show has cost a lot of money and time.And as in any business.Services received are services that are paid for.Would you go to a gas station and demand free gas because you like to drive?Or would you go to a grocery store and demand free food because you like to eat?HELL NO!.So why would you demand free music from a musician because you like music.It's a policy that that i don't comprehend.And on the side of club owners..The way second life entertainment is set up,the burden of this cost is all on them.It should NOT be this way.In rl ,clubs sell booze,and charge cover to get into the venue.That pays for the entertainment.In second life, there is no cover and no booze.The club owner has the artist fee,a tier and a stream fee in most cases.THAT COST MONEY,and to foot the bill for people that come to a show.Hoping,with rose colored glasses,that the goodness and generosity of people will prevail is nothing but a pipe dream.
People are not generous..for the most part.And to constantly harass and beg for tips is a demeaning and insulting act.There should be a cover charge at the door of every venue in sl..That's how I feel.Therefore there is no question of who the real supporters of live music are in second life.And to those of you that demand free music ..I challenge you.To go and write the music,play all of the instruments,produce,record,mix,master,do the photography,print records and get your own gigs,and then give it away for free.YOU WOULDN'T.So why ask that of me or any other artist.

28 USD per hour plus tips. The venue gets fuck all. Two bucks.. four bucks? Until this issue gets resoved I am goin broke listening to the finest music from the greatest people, buying their CD's and supporting my brothers and sisters in the arts. Fool that I am... I wont hire bots who play overtracking bullshit... yet carry a group of 900. I don't know why I am doing it... until I hear Tone Uriza break out of the gate and bring his music and audience up to a higher level than he or we have ever been. Then I know why I am doing this. Keep on keepin on@!

This post has apparently indirectly set off some kind of firestorm as well as what looks like a revival in discussions of performers and venue owners in SLMC.

The core of my beef was:

"To me, it still comes off as cheap. If you're asking someone to appear, you're not doing it blind. You know you like them, you like their stuff, and you know they're good folks.

Pony up or pack it in."

When you SEEK someone out, you don't do it with a pittance. You do it with what you think they're worth.

That's being misinterpreted to hell and back.

I suppose I'll just consider the ones misinterpreting it as that and just move on along the road.